So, hold the phone. (mods get your shit together)

"bob and john" (bobandjohn) 12/18/2019 at 00:24 • Filed to: None

7

63

as with regards with today’s comments...

one person gets banned, and the other doesnt...even though the first’s comments were WAY worse?

oi. mods. . sort your shit. I saw the comments between IM and TSP. if one person deserves a ban over that, then 100% does the other.

don’t play favourites. you are better than this.

^ me looking for the problem. HINT: I CAN’T FIND IT.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 00:32

4

Dusty has an explanation in the previous post on this subject 

MrDakka > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 00:35

0

You can't find it because y ou’re aren’t using the right tool. Try using a hammer or failing that, a banhammer. XD

NKato > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 00:35

9

Easiest solution would be to just start encouraging, more openly, any future political discourse in the Cigar Lounge, and start a thread for assigning posting privileges to those who request it.

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 00:39

7

How to get banned too: 101

bob and john > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 12/18/2019 at 00:40

1

yea, and frankly, i’m not a huge fan of it.

oh, someone argued with a mod. amazing.  

what I”M not a fan of why BOTH of them didnt get bans. yea, IM can be a bit of a dick, esp concerning his line of work. I’m not a fan, but meh.

but this is also not the first time TSP has been all righteously soy-protein ho about his shit either.


shit stinks like favourites and I’m not a fan of it. (not to mention Yamahog has, in the past, levied some actions against me off oppo for shit that happened ON oppo).

CB > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 00:40

10

Pete, don't keep bringing up drama if there are threads addressing it.

fintail > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 00:40

13

Starting another thread about this probably wasn’t the best decision.

bob and john > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 12/18/2019 at 00:42

0

oh, that would be icing on the cake IMO.    

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 00:44

6

I like turtles 

bob and john > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 12/18/2019 at 00:45

1

#tortise best   (honestly, i dont really know the differences)

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 00:47

1

I find that the problem usually reveals itself if you lick  the area where you think it might be.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 00:51

4

Sure they’ll last forever, but I just can’t handle the higher COG. (Lets be honest I want to feed that turtle some berries or whatever it likes )

bob and john > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media 12/18/2019 at 00:53

1

after 165K miles...there wasnt a lot on that bike i WOULD lick. 

Dusty Ventures > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 00:53

9

Ok, once more for the people in the back:

Both people were told by a mod to knock it off and step away from the situation.

One of them obeyed the mod’s instruction. One of them didn’t.

The one who didn’t was warned again. And again. And again.

After repeatedly going against these warnings this person was put in time out.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 12/18/2019 at 00:56

2

Electric Bugaloo

bob and john > Dusty Ventures 12/18/2019 at 01:01

8

and yet, someone with THIS history. :

(and I know its not the first time, because I’ve gotten into spats with him ) gets shit all?

Dusty, I think you and I get along, with most of the mods (one particular hedge-laden yamaha aside)

but dude. If I had said this, I the ban hammer would have come down so fast it would have left a dent in the table. 

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 01:03

9

Okay, I’ll forgive newer members for getting hot under the collar about this, but dude you;ve been on here long enough to see these things play out. If anything, the posts commenting about the original post just keep the wildfire burning. 

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 01:10

0

Which is perhaps why  its location remains a mystery to you?

bob and john > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 12/18/2019 at 01:10

4

Oh i’ve seen them play out. and it seem that every time anyone disagrees with the mods, people start getting banned. which, I am not a fan of. 

I have my own interactions with the mods. Most positive. some not. Shit happens.

The fact that this one had the thread deleted (hell, even my worst one was only moved to drafts...and THAT one was bad ) from someone who is a fairly regular (and good) contributor ...my moose-y sense are tingling.

bob and john > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media 12/18/2019 at 01:11

0

lol.

(i think I was in the process of the dropping the motor out that time...engine swap)

Chariotoflove > Dusty Ventures 12/18/2019 at 01:16

6

Dusty, I read the exchange after the fact. IM got the ban because he argued with a mod. While I personally think he should have STFU and cooled off, that cannot, repeat CANNOT, be a reason for a ban. Mods are not demigods. There should be no penalty for arguing with them, only for refusing to follow the rules. IM didn’t continue attacking TSP after the warning, so at that point the moderators’ job was accomplished and done. They should have just stopped responding to him and let it die down.

Peter is right here. 

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 01:22

4

One of the big benefits of Oppo is our lack of oversight and relative freedom when it comes to posting content and discussions. But on the otherhand, it also means that when situations like this pop up, we don’t have strict rules to point to for a clear-cut “You are in violation of XXXXXX, you are suspended for 7 days.” like a traditional forum. And with this lack of rigid rules for posters come a lack of strict rules and processes for mods - they are not under an obligation to make public notifications of what decisions get made.

So I guess I’ll ask you since I value your feedback and I wouldn’t mind hearing it from someone with a different take on the result (not necessarily opposite, just not the same) - What does a “Good” outcome look like to you, given what we’ve seen?

Dusty Ventures > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 01:25

6

First off, only one of those comments violates Oppo rules. The “ pussy ass bitch” one is a clear personal attack, but the others, while heated, aren’t outright violations.

Believe what you want, but here’s the reality. We hate having to ban people, especially since it always creates a shit show of posts and comments. Any situation we can solve by just saying “hey, you, stop that!” we’re gonna leave at that. IM, by repeatedly debating us, forced us to take some form of additional action. Leaving it be was no longer an option. If you force us to take action you’re probably going in time out.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 01:28

2

The thing about mods is, they’re the final authority wh ether you agree with them or not. You're welcome to stop using the platform if you don't like being at the mercy of other's sensibilities.

Chariotoflove > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 12/18/2019 at 01:34

9

I just wrote to Dusty. The idea is to keep people from being horrible to each other. HHFP steppes in appropriately and called for a step back. He also wiped the nastiest comments. Good so far. IM started arguing with him. Not a good choice, but at that point the mission was accomplished. What I think should have happened is that he and all mods should have stopped commenting to him and let him be for the night. He was worked up. Nothing more would be accomplished. Later on, a rational conversation could be had about how to avoid this in the future. That’s the way I thought it should have gone in the best case. We need to get away from this idea that you can’t mouth off to a mod, especially if the mods are free to participate in unrestricted fashion on controversial topics with the other members.

More broadly, please consider this. Families argue, sometimes horribly. Do we eject someone from our family because if it? Not if it’s a functional family. Healing can only happen, the family can only continue, if we stay engaged. Banning someone for stupid shit  they say out of emotion hurts our family. It hurts all of us and what we all hope for Oppositelock to be.

bob and john > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 12/18/2019 at 01:41

0

let me see if kinja will let me post this even...


2 ways.

1:Both get banned for the same. I would have rather not this. But textured soy (or atlas or whatever the screen name is) went WAY over the line for me. Getting told (hang on, let me get this right) “I’m rational as fuck you pussy-ass bitch.....hope you have a stroke”. Exp given that IM DID have a history, I would have expected a reaction one way or another from IM. But thats WAY over the line. If I said that, id get insta-banned.   

2: both told stop, and thread deleted before it goes on. Done and done.

3: Now, this is what I heard from IM post issue, and frankly, it kinda rings true with some of the past dealings of the ‘hog.

The issue was settled, and then she went after him an hour AFTER it was done. and then banned him. and (allegedly) the other mods are helping to cover up.

whats my history with her on this? A few years ago there was a bit of a discussion (read: argument) that party A called on Yama in a separate chat (of which I was part of) to help ‘deal’ with the situation. (ei: side with her).

Yama did, and I voiced concerns about it with the other mods. The reply I got? “we chatted it over with the other mods and felt it was warranted” yes, that having someone in a separate chat, and with who the mod played favourites with was approved. (party A is no longer here)

the next day, i was booted from that other chat. “going behind their backs’. Erm. yes. because I’m going to go to the 2 who were the PROBLEM about the problem .

So i KNOW there is history of that happening. and I was hoping it was a one time thing because, frankly, I think the guys here do a great job (for the most part anyways.)

Chariotoflove > Dusty Ventures 12/18/2019 at 01:43

5

Here is what I think you should consider. Debating with the mods shouldn’t be a cause for censure. On the contrary, if your decisions hold up to scrutiny, then you have nothing to worry about. If the debate is disruptive, then you can make arrangements to continue in private, or you have the option to disengage from the debate entirely. Mods aren’t deities and they aren’t parents to the members such that they can command personal deference. They are are only members themselves but charged with the  additional duty of keeping the peace. They undermine their own purpose when they demand deference and punish for not getting it. 

bob and john > Dusty Ventures 12/18/2019 at 01:48

0

here is the thing. from what i can tell, he got banned for arguing with a mod. NOT for the OG issue.

THAT is what I have a problem with.

OH, and the posts are ‘conveniently ’ deleted so we cant check..
Epstien killed himself as well, right? I sniff fish. 


I cant argue with a mod because they will ban me...I’m sorry Dusty, but thats not a platform to run. Hell, look at CL. I’ve banned ppl from there (a certain IDRIVECL65AMG if you remember ) because of repeated breaking the rules. But not for arguing with me.

facw > Chariotoflove 12/18/2019 at 01:51

3

Arguing with a mod when the mod is telling you to stop breaking the rules absolutely has to warrant further mod action. Otherwise your rules are basically meaningless. Now if I argued with a mod about whether a car is good and they  banned me that’s a different story but if a mod gives you a warning because you are breaking the rules, you really need to actually stop your bad behavior.

bob and john > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 12/18/2019 at 01:52

0

I’m not arguing that. (and trust me, it wouldn’t be the first time I’ve debating leaving)

what I am arguing is that someone shouldnt get banned for disagreeing with the mods. breaking rules, 100%. disagreeing with a mod? no. 

pip bip - choose Corrour > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 01:56

0

what happened?

CRider > CB 12/18/2019 at 01:58

4

Don't tell Pete to stop antagonizing authority figures, you know he hates that. 

Dusty Ventures > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 01:59

7

You’re arguing with me here and I haven’t and will not ban you. IM was given a direct instruction by a mod three times and refused to comply. That’s why he was banned.

For transparency I’m including screenshots. Then I’m going to bed because it’s 2 AM and I’ve been at this long enough for tonight. (If you look at the first two posts from HHFP you’ll see that while they say the exact same thing one was sent to IM and the other TSP, he copy-pasted his warning to both and forgot to change the name in the content of the message accordingly.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Chariotoflove 12/18/2019 at 02:00

2

I don’t disagree with the idea that both parties told to cool off but left un-banned. I think that some form of a cool-off area would be preferable to a “You’re either in or out” mentality. I think that the decisions made were making the best of a bad hand though because of the design of Kinja itself. FOr all we rant about it’s stability, I think the lack of moderation tools have gone un-complained about for too long.

In a proper forum, the thread would be locked with a final post from a mod saying “Go ne on for too long. Got too personal. No more here. Have a nice day”. And then you could follow up and restrict posting for the offending parties to certain sub-boards. Like say “Hey, no more off-topic boards for a while. Y ou want to share a wiring diagram for an old car? Cool. But no more political stuff for a week”. I don’t have a good answer for how to deal with a lot of things on here because their only tools are nukes - thread deletions and bans. Not really an effective way to manage a crowd....

I say all that because the scenarios you lai d out are difficult to make happen, if they’re possible at all. Honestly, I think there has been a lot of follow-up restraint given how many threads are still up (and even active!) that are filled with a lot of bile. But following my own logic thought, I guess the process is it has to go somewhere?

Keeping this from getting too long - we’re basically stuck with the setup we have and it isn’t one that’s conducive to legitimate reprimands and cooling off. I think your version is one that would be very popular but enforcement comes down to either innate trust, or an eventual ban due to a lack of tools available.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 02:26

1

I feel like 1 and 2 are decisions that have pros and cons, but are otherwise accepted as good possibilities. Given our relative lack of oversight, a part of the social contract on here is that you won’t always agree with all mod decisions 100%, but you can usually see the point of view of those who made the call.

Going on to the rest of what you’ve said, I read that less as an analysis of this particular situation and more about how mods conduct themselves and their business on here. So I’m going to bounce a few things back here and maybe they help build a more constructive platform rather than another tire on the fire.

I saw that yama did make a slight towards IM well after the fact. It wasn’t anything on the level of what went down, but it is what it is. But I will also point out that this is notable because yama doesn’t post or comment much anymore, while other mods like HHFP tend to do so. I brought up HHFP because if memory serves correct, they were in that thread too. Then, a decision got made in the background for a ban of some kind. We only know of the details because they came out in some comments later on. Did one mod influence others? Were mods who were involved in that thread recused fro m the decision? We don’t know.

If it was me, I’d pick my battles in this case. Recognize that yes, maybe you disagree with one mod in particular. But ask yourself *why* you disagree with them. Because there will probably always be at least one mod you disagree with on something. Instead, get down to root of the issue. Here’s a few possibilities I see here.

1) There should be some explicit “rules of conduct” for mods on Oppo in regards to how they can and can’t interact with members. This might even be a minimum post/comment requirement to make sure you have visible mods.

2) There should be a “Rules of engagement” for dealing with people either in risk of a ban, or who currently are banned, as it relates to the mods and the community at large. Maybe the mods should make a public post about bans?

3) Maybe we need an addendum in the rules that states something about how “If mods come in and sweep the comments, it was because of _______ so if you see this note in the title, DO NOT COMMENT!” or basically add in some extra tools or signals or something besides the only mod tools being “Ban or no ban”.

These are just examples, and maybe it helps you get your thoughts out better. We’ve seen this before and we’ve gone through it before, and I truly think that the platform itself shoulders some of the blame. We have unpaid volunteers moderating a rules-free (relatively) board with minimal tools to do it with. It’s like moderating a busted-ass 4chan when you think about it......

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 05:51

5

We can ban everyone, if you want.

Can we, please?

jimz > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 06:48

8

part of the problem is that over the past year or so IM has taken on a “I run this place” attitude. Post after post of political stuff where if you disagree with him he just tells you how stupid and deluded you are (‘cos how could anyone disagree with him) and if you get the least bit hot under the collar he would start talking about the rules and threaten to report you and get you banned.  To the point where I’ve deliberately avoided interacting with him for quite some time now. 

so I do find a little schadenfreude in how that came back to bite him in the ass.

Manny05x > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 12/18/2019 at 07:53

3

This. Let it go already the guy had it coming for a long time.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Chariotoflove 12/18/2019 at 08:10

1

Maybe have an honor rule ban from  posting or commenting for a few days to allow TSP and IM to cool off. If they break the ban, then ban them. I'm not in favor of ejecting a longtime member.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Chariotoflove 12/18/2019 at 08:14

3

As alluded to in the other post, this isn’t the first time mods have had to get involved in an IM post that gets too heated .

“and let him be for the night. He was worked up. Nothing more would be accomplished.”  

After the warning, he then responds to wiscopride in another thread . further ignoring the instruction. Other than banning t he mods don’t have any tools to use.

As a lawyer he should know more than anyone else here that argueing wi th the judge and ignoring is going to get you held in contempt.

Thomas Donohue > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 12/18/2019 at 08:26

0

I missed all the drama that this thread is referring to (thankfully) , but I knew if I kept reading that someone would save me!  

Nibby > Dusty Ventures 12/18/2019 at 08:51

4

i love cars

Dusty Ventures > Nibby 12/18/2019 at 09:19

3

Cars are cool, but have you tried traveling by barrel?

Nibby > Dusty Ventures 12/18/2019 at 09:21

3

only via barrel rolls

bob and john > Dusty Ventures 12/18/2019 at 09:30

2

I saw that in a lord of the rings movie once.

I have to admit, they did NOT make it look appealing

bob and john > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 12/18/2019 at 09:31

0

I mean sure, what could go wrong with that? 

Dusty Ventures > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 09:31

4

Figured I'd also explain quick why the comment thread was removed from the original post. This wasn't done to hide evidence, or silence anyone, or anything along those lines, hence why I was willing to include a screenshot of what happened. The comment thread was removed to prevent additional people from piling on and the thread snowballing into something even bigger. If Kinja offered a way to lock a thread to prevent further comments without dismissing it entirely we would choose that option every time. Unfortunately that isn't a tool the designers granted us.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 09:33

2

bob and john > Dusty Ventures 12/18/2019 at 09:49

0

okay, for some reason kinja isnt letting me find that last comment.

I will concede that kinja isnt the greatest for modding. but there HAS to be some way of locking out a thread without deleting it. greying it out? 

Dusty Ventures > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 09:58

2

Nope. In fact even now the thread isn’t truly  locked or deleted, it’s just hidden from view in the post. Someone who is Kinja savvy and determined can still go to the original thread and even comment on it if they so desired (please don't go comment on it). This is how I was able to find the thread and take screenshots of it. 

Jayhawk Jake > bob and john 12/18/2019 at 10:14

3

Who cares. It’s the internet. Whether or not you agree with how punishments were dealt out is ultimately irrelevant. 

Chariotoflove > facw 12/18/2019 at 21:24

0

No, I don’t think so . Arguing with a mod is simply arguing with a member of the forum, even if it’s about the moderator’s choice of actions or to accuse hi m of bias (irrespe ctive of whether the accusation is just or unjust). Mods are not sacrosanct and should not be entitled to special consideration because of their duties. In fact, I think being able to argue their calls is an important part of accountability, because there really is no other check on them aside from their personal integrity. And arguing with them doesn’t diminish their ability to do their jobs at all.

A moderator who finds himself under criticism has the same options available to us all when we find ourselves in that situation. He can continue to argue, he can dismiss an offensive comment, or he can choose to just log off and stop engaging in the conversation. FTR, it seems to me that HHFP was handling the situation in that way. He stepped in and stopped the shit-slinging between IM and TSP. Then he started taking fire from IM, who was way too worked up and insisted on having the last word. Even then, it looks like HHFP was backing away, having done what he came to do.

Chariotoflove > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 12/18/2019 at 21:40

0

As Peter said, refusing to stop breaking the rules is one thing. B ut arguing with the mods is not something that should be able to draw a ban.

Chariotoflove > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 12/18/2019 at 21:53

0

I think lacking the ability to lock a thread is a great shame considering how heated the political posts can get. Someone said elsewhere why isn’t this on Cigar Lounge? It made me think, one of the cornerstones of Oppo’s constitution is that political posts are allowed as much as any other off topic subject, but maybe we should change that. Maybe we should make Cigar Lounge our de factor sub-forum for such topics. Then, when anyone posts something political o n Oppo., mods can just move it to there. That’s a tool they have built in to Kinja now.

About followup conversations when heads are cooler, we lack easy tools to make that happen, I’ll agree. PMs are a blessing we miss but also a curse that we have dodged. But what could be done is a procedure for when people start getting too worked up such as saying, “hey, if you need to talk about this more , email me at mod. email@ domain. com” Not a cure-all to be sure, but sometimes when a person knows he will be heard, he can calm down better.

One way or the other, I would like to see this unfortunate incident motivate a constructive discussion that leads to changes in the way we handle these things.  Banning is a terrible tool that needs to be avoided unless absolutely necessary.

Chariotoflove > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 12/18/2019 at 21:54

0

It would be nice if we could have something like that. The key to having such things work is to mak e them not about punishment but about serving the community.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Chariotoflove 12/18/2019 at 23:16

0

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/a-slightly-revised-oppositelock-handbook-for-commenting-1750418920

“The launch of Kinja has given you, the commenters, access to a number of tools that used to be admin-only. This means less work for us, but it also means that you, the commenters, need to be more responsible for your conversations on this board. If someone is harassing you in response to something you wrote? Dismiss them. If the conversation is unproductive, walk away. If someone is chiding you for cursing too much, dismiss them and walk away. Basically, we expect you all to act like adults and therefore to handle conflict like adults (this applies even if you are not technically an adult).”

He was refusing to follow the rules, instead of walking away continued to engage TSP and then HHFP . F rom what I understand, yesterday wasn’t the first time the mods have been dragged to remind folks (including IM) to be excellent here , and if something comes up, report and walk away . So how many times do you want to poke the mod bear?

Chariotoflove > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 12/19/2019 at 00:01

0

From what you just quoted, dismiss and walk away. That option is available to the mods as well as to us. I’m not defending IM’s persistence. He needed to STFU, and I told him the same thing you just said, but I used “poke the tiger”. But as argumentative as he was being, arguing with a mod in and of itself must not be grounds for a ban. I stand (or I guess sit erect) by that statement. And especially when the final straw came as a result of a mod (who is not HHFP)  poking at the poster and throwing gas on the fire.

MonkeePuzzle > Dusty Ventures 12/19/2019 at 09:31

1

what!? NO!? OUR kinja doesnt have basic features !?

Dusty Ventures > Chariotoflove 12/19/2019 at 13:18

1

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. You're right, arguing with a mod shouldn't be a ban, and in it's own it isn't. This is why no one who's argued with me or any other mod about our actions has been banned. However, IM was also defying direct mod instruction, an instruction that was given repeatedly. That's where the issue lies. If a moderator says stop doing this thing and the person keeps doing the thing there has to be some form of recourse eventually

Chariotoflove > Dusty Ventures 12/19/2019 at 15:05

0

Thanks for answering. Perhaps I missed something. It had seemed to me that HHFP had successfully quelled the interaction with TSP and that the other tiff with wiscoproud that wasn’t that bad anyway had died down until yamahog for some unknown reason swooped in from nowhere and specifically goaded IM. I feel like it would have gone away if not for that.

More to the root of things, it seems to me that IM was a lot more belligerent than usual that day. He normally argues like a lawyer, but he really had an extra chip on his shoulder that day.  I wonder if something is going on off line with him to cause stress, because he’s normally a good and positive contributor. I hate to see someone who is a net plus get banned for what seemed like a bad day.

Dusty Ventures > Chariotoflove 12/19/2019 at 16:38

2

First and foremost I should make it clear that IM’s ban is not and was never meant to be permanent. It’s a two week time out and he will be allowed back come New Year’s. We have no intention of removing him permanently, just give him and everyone else time to cool off and reset. If your guess about something going on in his personal life is correct then hopefully this will have the added benefit of allowing him time to sort that out as well.

As for Yamahog and the timeline of things, a ban had already been decided on before her arrival.

At 4:47 HHFP brought the situation to our attention. We discussed it until 6:53, with it taking longer than usual due to the mods in the Eastern and Central time zones being on their way home from work and the ones in mountain and Western still being at work. By 6:55 the decision to ban had been made. Yamahog was the first to arrive at a computer (at 7:03) so she was tasked with enacting the ban. She opted to issue a final warning of sorts before doing so (7:16) (she opted for the warning in part honestly because it’s been forever since we banned someone and since then things had been moved around by the Kinja gods). Being honest that warning was a bit on the incisive side, but as I said at that point the decision had already been made. At 9:07 enough mods had finally made it home to their computers that collectively we were able to figure out how to complete the ban.

I hope this timeline helps.

Chariotoflove > Dusty Ventures 12/19/2019 at 17:24

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Thanks. That’s good transparency and I appreciate you sharing it. I don’t know if IM knows it is temporary or not. It’s hard to communicate with someone in this system unless you have someone’s personal email, which I happen to just because of the secret senna mail list. TBH, last I corresponded with him he was in an indignant huff and sounding like he was done. That’s his choice of course. He’s a big boy.

I partly empathize with him as someone of fairly conservative politics. It gets so frustrating to feel like the community favors the left and there are so many troops ready to do battle with you if you question liberal positions. I used to get bent out of shape about it until I learned to put these things in their place better. I hope he does too and decides to come back. If you guys want to extend that invitation, I don’t think it would be inappropriate for me to forward you his email for the purpose. Let me know.

I’m not sure why all this bothers me so much (he and I aren’t very close after all) except that with all the stress and sorrow of this year’s holiday season for me, I guess I’m looking for places of comfort and friendship to bolster me. Seeing this all go down kind of rocked that for me, I suppose. I don’t really want to be an internet activist most of the time.

Merry Christmas. 

Dusty Ventures > Chariotoflove 12/19/2019 at 18:13

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IM is indeed aware of the terms of his ban. He emailed me shortly after and we messaged back and forth yesterday. I made sure to explain the reason, terms, and duration in my first email. As you said, he voiced that he might not come back, but that’s his call.

I agree, it’s hard when you feel like you’re on an internet island in a sea of opposing political views waiting to drown you. Personally my approach has been to not only avoid the political discussions but to try not to so much as hint about my views in the general public. I'm willing to be open about them with certain individuals (some with similar views, some on the other side of the room) whom I know I can have an intelligent discussion with without fear of it getting heated or affecting our personal views of each other, but outside that group I try to be Switzerland.